The NYPD: Policing in Communities of Color

Retired Lieutenant Discusses “Stop and Frisk”, Residency Requirements for Police Officers, and How the Department Can Improve Relations with Blacks and Hispanics

A FROM THE G-MAN EXCLUSIVE

Lt. Robby Schwach entered the Police Academy in July of 1989, after spending three years volunteering with a civilian patrol in Far Rockaway.  He had always been interested in police work, but it wasn’t something he thought was attainable. While working with the civilian patrol, Schwach noted that he met a lot of good cops, and many who were not-so-good, and decided police work might be something he would be good at. The Far Rockaway High School graduate was already eager to pursue a career in law enforcement, but a harrowing incident in 1984 provided additional motivation for joining the New York City Police Department.

In this exclusive interview, the NYPD veteran discusses that incident, the impact it’s had on his career, and responds to questions about the controversial “stop and frisk” policy, the shooting of innocent or unarmed suspects by police officers, and how the NYPD can improve its volatile relationship with Black and Hispanic communities.

G-Man: Thank you for granting this interview, Lieutenant. Having covered the NYPD for a number of years, I realize that the department has a tendency to proceed with caution when it comes to the media, so I appreciate your willingness to help From The G-Man in its effort to address some of the issues that are of vital importance to New York City residents, particularly those in communities of color. I’d like to begin by asking you to talk about the 1984 incident that profoundly changed your life.

Schwach: Right after graduating from Far Rockaway High School in 1984, our senior class President, Jackie McKail, was killed in a robbery in Laurelton.  Jackie was a bright and caring young woman. I think she was originally from Haiti. She intended to study pre-med in college and hoped to help sick kids. Her death hit a lot of us very hard because it was so senseless and unnecessary. 

The mid-1980s in south Queens were very violent times.  I know at least ten kids who were shot or stabbed during my high school years. Living in fear was not a great way to grow up. I honestly felt that by becoming a cop, in addition to my interests in policing, if I could prevent what happened to Jackie and her family from happening to someone else, it would be worth it.

After graduating the police academy in 1989, I was assigned to a field training unit and spent much of the time at the 109th Precinct, in Flushing, and the 103rd in Jamaica, Queens. My first permanent assignment was to the 100th Precinct in Rockaway Beach. I spent four years there, three of which were as part of the community policing unit. This was the most satisfying assignment I’ve ever had. The concept involved assigning one of two officers to a “beat”, a specific area that they would be responsible for. 

Shifts and duties within the beat fluctuated depending on the conditions in that area. If cars were being broken into overnight, I’d work in a scooter on the midnight shift.  If kids were cutting out of school during the day, I’d team up with a partner, pick them up in a van, and return them to school. If people were being accosted and robbed coming out of the subway station, I’d work on foot, in and around the station during commuting hours. I enjoyed this assignment because it gave me the opportunity to be innovative. 

For instance, we had kids with gang/turf issues that caused violence in school and within the area. As a kid, I remember growing up and being able to walk freely through the various neighborhoods in Far Rockaway because I had friends in so many areas. The friendships were formed through playing basketball. Using this to my advantage, I started the United Neighborhood Basketball League at a school on my beat.  Kids in the local junior high school played twice a week after school. A volunteer teacher served as a referee, and I was the security guard. The uniforms were donated by the Police Athletic League.

I chose a kid from each neighborhood to be the team captains, but there was one catch. The captains had to have at least one kid from each of the six, distinct neighborhoods in the area.  Once kids started playing ball with each other, the whole neighborhood thing disappeared. Eventually, kids were getting to know people from other neighborhoods by playing and practicing with them. 

The kids abandoned their traditional neighborhood cliques and started hanging out more with their team members.  Incidents of violence in the school went down exponentially, as much as 80 percent the first year of the program. I also worked closely with teachers and administrators to deal with other issues: such as graffiti and vandalism. The ability to stay in one area to concentrate on problems, with the flexibility to change shifts and resources, made this my favorite assignment. 

In July of 1994, I was promoted to Sergeant and had to leave Rockaway.  I worked in the 9^th Precinct on the lower east side of Manhattan for a year, before joining the staff of a new patrol borough command in northern Queens. I tried to replicate some of the programs I started in Rockaway in these areas, but my efforts were rarely successfully.  At that time, the department had moved away from community policing and adopted more of a law and order strategy.

In April of 1997, President Clinton visited Shea Stadium and took part in the commemoration of the 15^th anniversary of Jackie Robinson’s breaking the color barrier in professional baseball. I supervised the security plans for his visit, and that drew a lot of attention. As a result, I ended up with a plum assignment in a city-wide unit responsible for crowd management. The unit dealt with demonstrations, parades, occasional riots, and responded to terrorist threats.

In 2004, I was promoted to Lieutenant. My last assignment placed me in command of my old crowd management unit in the Special Operations Division. I earned several departmental awards, including “Cop of the Year”, and a few medals. However, it’s the dozens of letters of commendation from members of the community that I’m most proud of – as well as the fact that despite being involved in hundreds of arrests, violent protests, and hundreds of community events, I never received a civilian complaint.  I retired in 2010, with the same rank.

G-Man: The next topic of discussion involves the recent killing of unarmed suspects or “accidental shootings”, like the one where a young bodega worker was shot and killed by an officer while fleeing a robbery. These shootings seem to be occurring more frequently, which is causing outrage among not just the families of the victims, but many New York City residents and community leaders who feel there is no justification for shooting or killing an unarmed man or woman. What is your response? 

Schwach: The accidental shooting at the bodega is an anomaly, in my opinion. It seems like the officers involved were walking up to a bad situation where they knew guns were involved. One of the victims ran right into the officer who had his gun out and when the two collided, the gun went off.  It’s very tragic, but I see that incident as very different from others where the officer’s judgment is questioned. 

Ironically, NYPD cops are using their guns less frequently. A total of 36 cops, out of 33,497, fired guns intentionally in 2011, not including training at the range, as opposed to 314 in 1971. This was reported in an October 12, 2012 Daily News editorial. I think that when there are a series of shootings in a relatively short period of time, as there have been recently, the perception is that these sorts of things are happening more often than they are. 

As far as justification goes, each situation is different.  I think part of what fuels public resentment is the theory that cops, at least some of them, are eager or too quick to shoot.  I don’t think this is the case.  I think that the mentality of most cops is that they would rather never use their gun if they don’t have to, but if they feel threatened, and they feel their lives are at stake, they’re going to defend themselves.

Training in the police academy involves several simulations where student officers are “shot at”. Some of these training scenarios are “no win” and the (student) officer is “killed”. That training, combined with actual events where cops were shot and killed because they didn’t shoot first, tends to make you somewhat paranoid. Again, I’m not making excuses, just offering an explanation of what may be going through minds.

G-Man: If given an opportunity, what three policies would you put in place to prevent these types of shootings from taking place?

Schwach: Only regular training programs can reduce these events. Unfortunately, we’ll never be able to eliminate these events entirely. All of my suggestions involve training.  For example, I’d return to some of the more realistic firearms training that was offered many years ago, with officers spending a few days at the range reviewing new tactics:  running before shooting (to simulate the stress) and using moving targets.  

I’ve been retired two years now, but for the last decade of my career, firearms training involved two half-days each year at the range, shooting at stationary paper targets. There are computer simulation programs that some officers are exposed to at the range, but they were state-of- the-art in the latter part of the last century. 

As part of a larger picture, I think the divide between the police and members of the community has widened in the last few years. I see this as a direct result of the downsizing of the NYPD.  We have a few thousand fewer officers on the street than we did five years ago. While this saves money for the city in tough economic times, the fewer cops are all working harder and going from assignment to assignment.  

There’s no opportunity for meeting with people, walking down the street, or speaking with residents and store owners.  Those relationships go a long way to closing the divide, but officers today have no time for this anymore. Only officers assigned specifically to community affairs duties, one or two in each precinct, have the time to do this, and they’re not the ones on patrol answering the 911 calls.

G-Man:  On August 3, 2012, the New York Post reported the following: “A federal judge in an 86-page decision ruled that a lawsuit by several plaintiffs raises serious questions about quotas, racial profiling, and constitutional rights that should be heard by a jury: Despite attempts to have it thrown out, the Center for Constitutional Rights' lawsuit accusing the NYPD of "stop and frisk" racial profiling will proceed. Yesterday, Judge Shira A. Scheindlin ruled that there was enough evidence, stating, "This case presents an issue of great public concern... the disproportionate number of African-Americans and Latinos who become entangled in our criminal justice system, as compared to Caucasians." Do you believe the judge’s ruling was correct? If not, why?

Schwach: I haven’t read the decision, but I’d be careful reading too much into this.  First, the judge was saying that there was enough question to allow a lawsuit to proceed, she wasn’t agreeing with the charges. Second, the stats, although accurate don’t present a true picture. If I’m working as a cop in a neighborhood where 75 percent of the descriptions on reports of crimes indicate a perpetrator who is a white male, in his 40s, 5’4”, and 220 pounds, then that’s who I’m stopping and questioning more often than not. Does it make me racist because I’m not stopping more people who are African-American, Asian or female?  In my effort to catch criminals, my stops and actions were based on the descriptions of the criminals I was looking for. 

With rare exception, people only become “entangled” in the criminal justice system when they are criminals. In order for an individual to become “entangled” in the criminal justice system, they have to go through various “gates” where their arrest was verified.  Initially, the officer making the arrest -- and his/her partner in most cases -- has to believe the individual has committed the crime.  Then, a supervisor on the street, usually a sergeant, has to verify that the arrest is legitimate. 

When the group arrives at a local police precinct, the suspect and the arresting officer go in front of a desk officer (supervisor - either a sergeant or lieutenant) who must also be satisfied with the arrest.  Soon thereafter, the arresting officer is interviewed by an assistant district attorney who decides what, if any charges will be filed. Later on, the suspect is brought in front of a judge for an arraignment. The judge must be satisfied with the arrest and charges to allow things to proceed. 

If the alleged crime is of a serious nature, an impartial group (grand jury) must agree that there is enough evidence to warrant proceeding.  My point is that, in order to go through the system, there have been several people, including impartial people, who believed the arrest was appropriate to the extent that the individual should be prosecuted. As far as Stop/Question/Frisk goes-  “Stop, Question, and Frisk” is a great tool, rooted in English common law where police can stop an individual based on information and observation, when they think criminality is afoot. The idea is stop the individual and question them to determine what’s going on. 

The frisk (a pat down for weapons) only comes into play if the officer has reason to believe, based on the nature of the crime, and observation, that the suspect is armed.  You wouldn’t frisk someone for jumping a subway turnstile, necessarily, unless by observation you notice something that would indicate a weapon. You would frisk someone if the crime you were stopping them for was armed robbery, as weapons possession is inherent in the crime.

G-Man: Was there any aspect of “stop and frisk” that made you uncomfortable during your service?

Schwach:  Yeah, especially when political correctness enters the equation. I had a beat where robberies were occurring around the subway station I was responsible for.  All of the reports (5) from victims indicated that the perpetrator was a Black, male, between 20-25, with various descriptions of height and weight. The robberies occurred in the winter, between 6 and 8 p.m., when it was dark, and involved physical force, not weapons.  Does that justify me stopping every Black male? Of course not! Does it justify me in stopping and frisking every Black male in the station at night? Of course not! Did it justify me stopping Black men in the described age range who were “hanging out” in the station, not getting on a train, but then following people leaving the station?  I think you could understand why I did.   

                                           

When all was said and done, the few people that were stopped had very good reasons for their behavior, and there was no need for frisking, and no justification for making arrests. At the end of a two week period, the robberies stopped. Was one of the guys I stopped the bad guy? I don’t know. Did the robber get arrested somewhere else for another crime? I don’t know. 

Ultimately, at the end of the month, I had submitted seven “250s”, the form for tracking a Stop/Question and Frisk. My Sergeant asked if I was racist, since I was only stopping Black men! But that was the description of the guy I was looking for! Should I have stopped some elderly Asian women to “even out the stats”? Like many other tactics, I think the Stop/Question/Frisk is an important tool, but may not always be appropriate. 

The more cops are judged by numbers (stop/question/frisk situations, summonses, arrests), the more likely the pressure on cops to use these tactics more often to show they’re active and gain approval from their supervisors. Crunching numbers for crimes at Compstat has made the city safer. Crunching numbers for individual cops to determine their productivity breeds insensitivity and unnecessary confrontations.

G-Man: During my tenure as a journalist, I’ve had conversations with community and church leaders, civil rights activists and elected officials serving and living in minority communities. When discussing the issue of police brutality within these communities, a number of them cited what I now call “the Long Island Factor”.

Simply put, some believe a considerable number of Caucasian officers, who were born and raised on Long Island or the outskirts of New York City, are patrolling Black and Hispanic communities with a preconceived notion about the community, which may have been cultivated during their childhood and well into adolescence.

Others believe a significant number of these “non-residents” have outright disdain for the members of these communities. During your 21 years of service, have you ever encountered officers that “fit the description”? If so, what impact did it have on your job performance and ability to serve in Black and Hispanic communities?

Schwach:  Growing up in Far Rockaway, I thought the “Long Island Factor” was legitimate until I actually joined the department. There are good people who become good cops. They come from all over the place, and where you were raised is not an accurate predictor of an officer’s job performance.

Let’s face it, there are still areas in New York City where an overwhelming number of residents are white, and kids go to local public and private schools, rarely encountering anyone outside of their “circle”.  Even though they’re from New York City, would they be better cops than someone who grew up in Hempstead, Long Island, which is much more diverse? Probably not. 

I used to teach a civics lesson to junior high school kids.  We’d list on the blackboard (before smart boards) all of the characteristics that the kids thought cops should have.  “Brave, fair, strong, serious, committed” were regular choices. After the listing, I’d draw a big circle and say, “This is the Police Planet, where people like that live…that’s where we get cops from, right?”  The kids would figure my illogical path right away and correct me. They understood that we get cops from the same neighborhoods we get teachers, lawyers, journalists and McDonald’s employees. Simply put, no neighborhood has a monopoly on virtue.

In my opinion, the difference between good cops and no-so-good ones is the same as good people and not-so-good people. It all boils down to the way the individual was raised, and has NOTHING to do with race, gender, sexual orientation, or hometown.  The same can be said for any other occupation.  

There is one advantage to having cops live in the city.  In an emergency, they’re closer to work if we need them. However, there has only been one incident in the last three decades where cops were all called in from home: September 11.  

G-Man: As a former police officer, is there anything specific you’d like to say to members of the Black and Hispanic community, especially the young people?

Schwach: Yes. I would like to say exactly what I said when I was a member of the department.  I tried never to judge people by the color of their skin or the neighborhood they lived in. Don’t judge me or other officers because we’re in blue. If we can get past the colors, we can do pretty amazing things in our communities.  If we concentrate on the colors, and prejudge each other, we’re destined to fail.

G-Man: What do you think of the Rev. Al Sharpton and his protests against the NYPD?

Schwach:  I have several issues with Reverend Sharpton, but I’ll keep them to myself.  I don’t think this is an appropriate venue.  As far as protests go, I think he had, and has, every right to protest the government for a redress of grievances. It’s our right under the Constitution. I have no problems with him or anyone else protesting when they wish to highlight a perceived injustice or show support for a cause.

G-Man: What should the NYPD be doing more of in order to improve relations between its police officers and communities of color?

Schwach: I have some great ideas, but they’re all expensive. At a time of economic distress, the city can’t afford to take cops off patrol to spend more “off-patrol” time meeting people on a different level, talking to people, and gaining their trust.  I always joked that no one calls 911 to invite us to a birthday party. They only call 911 when things get so out of control that they have no other choice. As a result, many people, kids especially, relate the cops to bad situations or trouble.

We don’t visit them to congratulate them on their kindergartner graduating or their child receiving a little league award. We show up to take Dad away when he’s drunk. We pull them over when Mom forgot to signal before changing lanes. We bring them back to school when they cut class.  It’s no wonder people think we’re the enemy, even before we do anything! 

Do you know how many times a parent walked up to me with their kids, while I was in uniform, and said to them, “If you don’t listen to Mom and Dad, this policeman will take you away from me and put you in jail!” You don’t think that’s setting these kids up to believe that the police are the enemy? 

I spent a lot of time working with one particular kid on my beat, who is Hispanic. We’ll call him Jason. That was his first name.  Jason’s dad was MIA and his mom’s boyfriend beat her up. Jason had serious personal issues, but was rarely violent. He had been arrested as a kid for trespassing, graffiti, and was regularly truant.  I talked to him often, stopped by to ensure his mother’s boyfriend was behaving, and gained his trust. He eventually went to store-owners and offered to clean up graffiti. 

One night, I was chasing a guy who had broken into a car to steal the radio.  I chased him for three blocks, on foot, before another officer in a patrol car cornered him and took him into custody. The police dispatcher said that 911 had received calls from a youth who was begging that they send help to Officer Schwach because he was in trouble. The call back number was Jason’s. This kid had seen me from his bedroom window in the housing project he lived in and called for help to make sure I was okay.

These types of relationships only happen when the police, kids, and adults have the opportunity to meet in non-confrontational situations and are able to relate to each other as human beings, not combatants.  Those opportunities are very rare today.

G-Man: What should Black and Hispanic communities be doing more of to improve relations with the NYPD?

Schwach: The onus should be on the police to improve relations. People shouldn’t have to do anything. Having said that, I would also like to see reasonable adults, in all communities, take more of an effort to raise their children responsibly. No community should accept violence in their neighborhood. However, some adults facilitate the violence by ignoring neighbors that they know are selling drugs, carrying guns, and by teaching kids to honor the “no snitching” code.

G-Man: In closing, would you like to make a statement to Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, or members of the NYPD about policing in Black and Hispanic communities?

Schwach: Before this interview, I couldn’t conceive of one question that I wouldn’t want to answer, but you’ve managed to come up with one. (Smiling) My comments speak for themselves. I don’t think making one statement would do any good, and I don’t believe that’s it’s my place to lecture others. But thanks for the opportunity.